Region 
 

Interview

‘Indonesia and Pakistan enjoy warm fraternal ties’.

His Excellency Adam M. Tugio, Ambassador of the Republic of Indonesia, talks to Dr. M. Ali Hamza in this exclusive interview with SouthAsia.

October 2021

How would you describe the current state of bilateral relations between Indonesia and Pakistan?
Let me say that Indonesia and Pakistan enjoy warm fraternal ties based on shared interests in promoting national development and global peace and security. Pakistan is a trusted friend and partner for Indonesia in the South Asian region. Both sides have a strong desire to expand bilateral cooperation in multiple spheres. The two countries signed a Defence Cooperation Agreement (DCA) in 2010 and Preferential Trade Agreement (PTA) to facilitate trade in 2013. Some mechanisms for strengthening a political dialogue were established encompassing a Joint Working Group to combat terrorism and Policy Planning Dialogue. Likewise, MoUs to promote educational linkages have been concluded between more than 10 high learning institutions representing each country, respectively.

Our two-way trade ties are positive and figures remain promising even in the time of the pandemic. In addition, we share many cultural similarities as the people of the two countries are strongly influenced by traditions and enjoy a diverse cultural heritage. Both Indonesia and Pakistan have attractive and colourful shades of culture. Both are peace-loving nations and religion plays an important role in the lives of our people with a deep respect for religious and social values. Both the countries have a big population, emerging markets, a growing middle class, talented millennials, a stable democratic system and sincere leadership. Keeping in view the present pace of momentum and developments, I see a very promising future for our bilateral relations in the years ahead.

Indonesia is Southeast Asia’s largest economy, with Jakarta serving as the headquarters of the ASEAN.

In terms of regional socio-economic and socio-political developments, how do you view the future of South Asian and Southeast Asian countries?
Both South Asian and South East Asian nations, in my humble opinion, have a bright and prosperous future since they have significant economic growth potential due to their large populations, growing markets, on-going infrastructure development projects, and geopolitical and geo-economic relevance. With a combined population of over 649 million people and a GDP of over USD 2.9 trillion, the South East Asian area is expected to become a future centre of global commercial activity. The ASEAN nations’ diverse cultural, economic, political, and social systems add to the allure of this huge integrated market. Interestingly, Indonesia alone has a trillion-dollar economy and is the region’s largest economy, reflecting the global trade trend toward this region.

Similarly, even in these days of pandemic, South Asian nations with a predicted growth rate of over 7% are attracting the attention of foreign investors. After the completion of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), which is fast transforming the economic landscape with its modern infrastructure and special economic zones, Pakistan is projected to be the centre of future commercial activity in South Asia. In this perspective, the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and the presence of Gwadar Port are hugely important initiatives for potential investors as an entry route to Central Asia’s energy-rich landlocked republics. Furthermore, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) platform is critical in promoting regional integration and working together in a cooperative spirit across the area. ASEAN has already gained substantive economic benefits from regional cooperation. All these positive indicators of development in the countries of both regions are pointing towards a prosperous future ahead.


Are ASEAN member countries ready to make the needed changes in their diplomatic manoeuvring, considering the new modalities of ever-changing global realities?
The ASEAN member states are usually quite adaptive to changing global realities and have a flexible and pragmatic diplomatic approach to address the issues. The collaboration and interdependence are the keys for ASEAN to harvest benefits for all the members. Since, world politics and economy are never constant, the strategy must also be dynamic as well as balanced to go in line with the changing trends. For instance, China is the biggest trading partner of ASEAN and it stands at the top of the list in trade. Yet the trade ties of ASEAN with the US are equally robust and it is the fourth largest trade partner of US.
Another example of shifting global patterns is the promising potential for collaboration in the Indo-Pacific area. The ASEAN Dialogue Partnership framework and ASEAN’s Indo-Pacific Outlook lay the groundwork for mutually beneficial collaboration and serve as mechanisms for a thriving ASEAN area. With greater connectivity and trade facilitation between South Asia and Southeast Asia, the region may become a strong block, as it shares 44 percent of the world’s surface area, 65 percent of the world’s population, and 62 percent of the world’s GDP. As a result, ASEAN members are following the trends and willing to promote partnerships across the globe. In this context, the SAARC is equally important for ASEAN since South Asian nations, particularly Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, provide significant opportunities for regional economic integration due to their vast natural resources and consumer markets.

What could be the projected socio-economic benefits of the enhanced relationship of ASEAN with CARs and Western China?
Interestingly, China’s BRI initiative in Asia, which aims to improve transportation and energy connections, has several socio-economic benefits for both ASEAN and the CARs. Because China is ASEAN’s largest trade partner and has a reciprocal connection with the CARs, it provides a critical connectivity link that has the potential to boost collaboration between the two areas. It would give both sides more intra-regional growth, investment, and partnership opportunities. With its expanding markets and abundant energy resources, Central Asia is also strategically important for ASEAN member countries as a link between Europe and Asia. The more progressive relationship and trade links between the two regions will certainly bring tremendous benefits for the people.

How can Pakistan play an important role in connecting ASEAN with CARs and Western China?
Pakistan, I believe, plays a critical role in linking ASEAN with the CARs and China. Pakistan-China friendship and cultural and historical links with Central Asia, and strong cordial relations with ASEAN offer a solid basis for the country to play such a significant role. Another important element is China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) projects, as well as participation of countries in these massive economic projects. Pakistan’s geostrategic location allows member countries of ASEAN to link with Central Asia more effectively in order to reap the benefits of growth. A two-way strategy might yield more favourable outcomes in this area. At bilateral level, ASEAN members can access CARs via Pakistan and at institutional level Pakistan and ASEAN could expand practical cooperation in areas of common interest, such as economy, science, technology and innovation, connectivity and tourism.

Is there any diplomatic vacuum between some ASEAN member countries and Pakistan? If yes, what part can Indonesia play in bridging the gaps between ASEAN and Pakistan?
In reality, using the phrase “diplomatic vacuum” to describe the relationship between ASEAN and Pakistan would be unfair, since both parties have always been eager to enhance their involvement in all major areas of interest. Pakistan has joined the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), ratified the Treaty of Amity (TAC), and signed a joint statement with ASEAN to combat terrorism, but economic activity is so far below expectations. Pakistan exports $ 0.993 billion to ASEAN and buys $ 6.181 billion from the region.

Considering the dynamic growth and vast integrated market of South East Asia, I believe that Pakistan’s Look East policy can surely pay dividends. However, to utilize this huge existing economic potential, intensive diplomatic efforts for more progressive engagement are required. In addition, the growing importance of Indian Ocean Region (IOR) in terms of connectivity and expanding trade activities will also have a significant impact on Pakistan’s economy in the near future. Therefore, further consolidation of ties between ASEAN and Pakistan would be economically very beneficial for a comprehensive partnership.


Happily, the goodwill and strong desire to further foster two-way ties exist on both sides.
The implementation of ‘Vision East Policy’ together with high-level exchange visits at political level from Pakistan to Southeast region would undoubtedly foster the spirit of cooperation. ASEAN could get benefit from successful experience of Pakistan in tackling terrorism, and counter violent extremism (CVE) strategy. On trade and investment cooperation, Pakistan can also offer investment incentives to ASEAN countries to participate in CPEC projects. The importance of the private sector and people-to-people connections is unquestionably vital. Pakistani diaspora in ASEAN countries and the presence of big Muslim population in Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei can also be very helpful in relationship building. Finally, the establishment of market research centres, public-private partnerships, media promotion of the land and culture, and investment potential might all help to strengthen interaction and linkages between ASEAN member nations and Pakistan.

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